PCs and Steam: Thread 01

[Digfox]

You need to read the link I posted earlier to see why cost is not the only consideration for indie devs.

I've read the article but unfortunately that also negates to mention that if licensing the Unreal Engine for commercial use there will be a further 5% on top of the 30% percentage for Valve. The 5% gets waived on the Epic Game Store which seems to have been missed in a lot of places. I was merely raising this as a fact in that the numbers aren't quite what is being quoted.

There will be many factors in a developers decision to make these sorts of choices but I completely understand the anger from certain consumers at the recent exclusivity deals.

[fishbowlhead]

There will be many factors in a developers decision to make these sorts of choices but I completely understand the anger from certain consumers at the recent exclusivity deals.

I don’t get it at all to be honest.

Still the same platform, pc.
Still the same game.
Just a different url you need to go to.

It’s not been suddenly switched to PS4/Xbox as an exclusive at the last min here.

[Neon Ignition]

I think I get it a little more after reading Era. Many seem to not be liking the precedent it potentially is starting to set. Metro Exodus was pulled from Steam but it was also pulled from four other store fronts that it was up for sale on. Epic Store listed the game cheaper than it was available for on Steam but slightly more expensive than it was on the other store fronts so a portion of people who planned to buy it but never planned to do so via Steam would now have to pay more and see it as an anti-consumer move

[Dogg Thang]

And yet this isn't setting a precedent because I'm pretty sure I didn't buy Crysis 3 on Steam or Dead Space 3 for similar reasons many years ago and the consumer seems to be doing okay when it comes to getting games. This isn't new and it's not surprising. It's a thing that happens.

[Digfox]

I don’t get it at all to be honest.

Still the same platform, pc.
Still the same game.
Just a different url you need to go to.

It’s not been suddenly switched to PS4/Xbox as an exclusive at the last min here.

I'm apathetic to it, because I'm not as emotionally or financial invested in Steam. It also feels like the way other media has gone, where the you rarely have all your content on one service. That said most will argue that they want all their games in one place, but Steam also is by far and away the most feature rich service because it has:

• In-home streaming
• Local prices in over 100+ regions
• Community market/mods
• Trading
• Full controller support
• Big game mode
• Linux support even for non-native games
• plus loads of other stuff

Also with the grey market/key sellers we tend to see cheaper pricing when games are on Steam.

And yet this isn't setting a precedent because I'm pretty sure I didn't buy Crysis 3 on Steam or Dead Space 3 for similar reasons many years ago and the consumer seems to be doing okay when it comes to getting games. This isn't new and it's not surprising. It's a thing that happens.

Those examples are first-party games that the publisher has launched exclusively on their own service/storefront. This is about Epic Games paying publishers to keep game OFF Steam.

It that sense this sets a precedent.

[Dogg Thang]

Those examples are first-party games that the publisher has launched exclusively on their own service/storefront. This is about Epic Games paying publishers to keep game OFF Steam.

I don't see this as being a huge distinction. EA are the publisher of Crysis (do they own Crytek?) so in that sense paid to put it where they want and the first two games were on Steam and then the 3rd withheld from Steam. The result is pretty much the same - you can't buy a game you want on Steam and have to go to another store. And by "have to go" I mean you don't really have to go anywhere. It's not like if I want my Tesco Finest Salt and Vinegar crisps - I have to make a trip for those and can't just pick them up at the closest shop.

As for the Steam features, I guess they had a lot of time to develop these when they had what was close to a monopoly for so long.

[Digfox]

I don't see this as being a huge distinction. EA are the publisher of Crysis (do they own Crytek?) so in that sense paid to put it where they want and the first two games were on Steam and then the 3rd withheld from Steam. The result is pretty much the same - you can't buy a game you want on Steam and have to go to another store. And by "have to go" I mean you don't really have to go anywhere. It's not like if I want my Tesco Finest Salt and Vinegar crisps - I have to make a trip for those and can't just pick them up at the closest shop.

As for the Steam features, I guess they had a lot of time to develop these when they had what was close to a monopoly for so long.

Maybe the end result is the same but the difference is that Epic is paying publishers of other games to keep them off Steam.

To stay with your example this is akin to ASDA buying exclusivity on Salt & Vinegar crisps and then paying for them to no longer be available at Tesco. If you're a Tesco's customer paying a monthly fee for home delivery that might rub you up the wrong way.

[Dogg Thang]

To stay with your example this is akin to ASDA buying exclusivity on Salt & Vinegar crisps and then paying for them to no longer be available at Tesco. If you're a Tesco's customer paying a monthly fee for home delivery that might rub you up the wrong way.

Nope, that's not the same for a couple of reasons. Firstly because removing Salt & Vinegar would be akin to buying an entire genre. You can still buy Salt & Vinegar crisps anywhere right now. However, there are many products that end up exclusives in shops - that happens and it's not new. Secondly you have introduced a monthly fee to being a Tesco member. Unless I have missed a huge change, nobody is paying a subscription to be on Steam. They don't suddenly now have to pay two monthly fees to buy a game from the Epic store. It's disingenuous to make up factors that don't exist here. And being honest, the fact that you do have to introduce other hypothetical factors that aren't the case make me feel all the more that it's not a big deal because you shouldn't need to do that.

It's just another store. It's free to join. You don't have to go anywhere. You can get it from the exact same chair you would get it from anywhere. It is WAY easier than getting my Tesco Finest Salt & Vinegar.

[Digfox]

Nope, that's not the same for a couple of reasons...

Personally I would saying buy up exclusivity on ALL snacks would be akin to buying up an entire genre. Also the reason shops is a bad example is that you tend to buy the product and that's it. With services like Steam or Epic, you are going to want to re-download and play your games in the future. Therefore you have a much more vested interest in the provider of that service. No-one knows if Epic Games Store will be around 2 or 3 years. Desura was a good example of a digital storefront on PC that has come and gone.

But the fact is that right now on PC you cannot buy Metro Exodus anywhere other than the Epic Game Store. Hence my example. If you can't see it, that's fine, but personally I can understand why people are miffed Epic are paying for exclusivity. I'd agree that companies buying exclusivity isn't new; i.e. Microsoft's Tomb Raider deal or BT Champions Leagues rights. But again it's a relatively new thing here in the PC space.

PS. Tesco home delivery has a monthly £3 priority delivery charge.

[wakka]

Well this was an interesting thread and now for some reason I am craving a packet of salt and vinegar.

[Dogg Thang]

Well this was an interesting thread and now for some reason I am craving a packet of salt and vinegar.

This was really my goal. And you'll find you get the best with the Tesco® Finest™ range. Every little helps.

*waits for paycheck from Tesco*

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2019/01/hitman-2-removes-denuvo-drm/76074/

https://www.pcgamesn.com/resident-ev...-evil-7-denuvo

https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2019/01/yakuza-kiwami-denuvo-drm-removed-ahead-of-february-19th-steam-release/75685/

There's been some discussion on this over at Era and it may be nothing but may be a new trend developing where it appears that Denuvo support may be starting to slowly dry up

[fishbowlhead]

Nope, that's not the same for a couple of reasons. Firstly because removing Salt & Vinegar would be akin to buying an entire genre. You can still buy Salt & Vinegar crisps anywhere right now. However, there are many products that end up exclusives in shops - that happens and it's not new. Secondly you have introduced a monthly fee to being a Tesco member. Unless I have missed a huge change, nobody is paying a subscription to be on Steam. They don't suddenly now have to pay two monthly fees to buy a game from the Epic store. It's disingenuous to make up factors that don't exist here. And being honest, the fact that you do have to introduce other hypothetical factors that aren't the case make me feel all the more that it's not a big deal because you shouldn't need to do that.

It's just another store. It's free to join. You don't have to go anywhere. You can get it from the exact same chair you would get it from anywhere. It is WAY easier than getting my Tesco Finest Salt & Vinegar.

Yep. This is just getting silly now this subject.

Same game.
Same machine, pc.
Same price, more or less.
Devs save money off steam fees.
Just go to a different url or launcher to buy.

[Digfox]

Yep. This is just getting silly now this subject.

The flipside to that, is that just because you can't understand why it's a problem, doesn't mean it ISN'T a problem. As we have transitioned from products into services not everyone understands the implications.

There have been some very good reasons given for why people love the Steam ecosystem but it feels like there are some tone deaf responses on here. As mentioned I don't personally have a huge problem with this, but respect why some people do.

[Dogg Thang]

Yeah, people love Steam. I do get that. It's the main reason I never played Crysis 3 - I just wasn't bothered setting up an account elsewhere. So this being a slight frustration, I get that. But I could have and it really wouldn't have been a big deal if I had cared enough about the game so anything beyond frustration? No, because the main reasons given haven't just been: I just really like Steam. Marty got there eventually and maybe that's it in a nutshell. Maybe people are just bothered because they like Steam but then, in order to justify it, are taking it much further than the simple basic reality that they like what they already have. If we started with that, I'd have understood much more but it seemed to be made into a big problem.