Europe III: April F-EU-Ls

[Cepp]

I'm afraid you don't have a choice.

I know it seems incredibly scary right now, any nothing anyone says will change that for you, but it won't be anywhere near as bad as many are making out. A lot of very vocal people have a lot riding on being part of the EU project and they will try as hard they can to convince us all they have our interests in mind, the reality is vert different.

I'd say the same about people pushing hard for Brexit lmao and the more power they have, the less I trust them.

Either way, I'll give up when it's done and if a lifeline should somehow appear, I'll be recommending everyone grab it.

[gIzzE]

Apparently talks have stared between Mays team and the WTO about the UK taking up their clause in article 24 where we move to WTO trade free tariffs for a decade. We can then trade with the EU trade free for up to 10 years while we negotiate deals with everyone.

Obviously this means we also move to trade free deals with everyone else within the WTO, but surely with the globe getting smaller this is what we want moving forward?

Of course we may see some negatives, we con't be able to put on tariffs on the Chinese who want to supply us steel cheap etc.

But overall this would be a massive boost to any negotiations.

How would you feel if we moved to a completely free trade agreement with up to 10 years to then negotiate deals around the globe?

[EvilBoris]

[MENTION=6808]Cepp[/MENTION] I’m genuinely not even sure if I’d bother voting if there was a snap general election. Living in England, there’s no strong anti-Brexit party. Voted Labour for years, will never vote for them again after having Corbyn as leader; any party which can end up lead by someone like that can just do one.

It's a funny one, because the people who that party were always there to represent and make up the bulk of their voters historically, are the ones who likely voted to leave. It leaves the party in a predicament as to what stance to take.

This is the flaw with the current system, the lack of proportional representation means there is no room for smaller parties with policies you agree with to be able to gain any traction. So you have the choice of whichever big party you feel is the lesser of the evils

[Dogg Thang]

Link us to this WTO deal.

[gIzzE]

Link us to this WTO deal.

I can't, it was from a friend who works in Westminster who told me.

I couldn't find anything about it, he mentioned it the other day, I thought he said article 44, but I could find no info so asked him again.
He said it is a clause in article 24 (not 44) that allows us to move onto a tariff free deal for up to a decade, which would allow us plenty of time to then negotiate trade deals with who ever we wish to trade with. The constraints are that if we move to this trade free tariff it is with everyone, which would stop us from putting tariffs on countries products that we don't want flooding our market, we lose our protectionist abilities basically.

I'm still reading through Article XXIV myself and the articles linked to it to get a better understanding of it. But seems quite interesting and do wonder why May didn't go with this first and then negotiate from there?


I guess we will hear about it after the break?

[EvilBoris]

I can't, it was from a friend who works in Westminster who told me.

My uncle works for Nintendo and he told me they were making a new F-Zero game

[gIzzE]

My uncle works for Nintendo and he told me they were making a new F-Zero game

Haha, fair enough.

I guess we will see what comes from it after the recess.

[Protocol Penguin]

You should be laughed out if the thread, no, entire forum, for doing the sociopathic “my uncle works for Nintendo” type bull****.

Nice of you also to show such compassion for all the EU citizens living in the UK and their families (and British living in the rest of Europe) who will catastrophically affected by a no-deal Brexit </sarcasm> No-deal will be Brexit becoming the 1930s style humanitarian crisis we were all worried it would become.

[gIzzE]

You should be laughed out if the thread, no, entire forum, for doing the sociopathic “my uncle works for Nintendo” type bull****.

Nice of you also to show such compassion for all the EU citizens living in the UK and their families (and British living in the rest of Europe) who will catastrophically affected by a no-deal Brexit </sarcasm> No-deal will be Brexit becoming the 1930s style humanitarian crisis we were all worried it would become.

I have said all along that for me the EU was all about free trade and allowing people to move freely between countries.

I said the free movement of people was one of the main reasons I nearly voted remain and just having a slim chance of losing that did and still does play on my mind. But I don't think we will see anything change that much.

I think you're being totally over the top about a 1930s humanitarian crisis, and when you say things like that you lose all credibility to be honest.

I like the fact they may now agree a deal to go to a free trade deal on WTO rules as it might make the EU stop and think a bit, we may then get a trade deal that doesn't keep us as tied to the EU as we are now or as we will be with the current deal on the table.
The direction the EU is going is really, really not good for anyone other than a few elites, it is all about keeping ultimate control of the little guys and taking away sovereign states abilities to steer their own destination.

I have said time and time again, the EU project was superb when it started, open trade and freedom of movement, but if you want to try and spin my views into something else that is up to you.



After xmas let's see what is said about WTO's article 22 shall we?



Edit: I should add, to be fair to you, I am not sure if the interpretation of this Article XXIV clause is right anyway reading it. I guess they can ask for it, but will it give them what they want?

You lot on here all seem to really not want to discuss options at all, you all seem extremely blinkered. If it isn't "cancel Brexit" you don't want to even talk.
I stopped posting on these threads ages ago, I thought maybe things had changed, but apparently not.
The problem is, if you don't listen to options and concerns of those that may not think the same way as you do you end up with things like Brexit and god forbid, we could end up with someone like Trump running things.

[Protocol Penguin]

Oh, no sign of any compassion or concern for the EU citizens in the UK (and British citizens in mainland Europe) and their families, just some word-salad blathering about “elites” and some macho posturing for no-deal.

[gIzzE]

Oh, no sign of any compassion or concern for the EU citizens in the UK (and British citizens in mainland Europe) and their families, just some word-salad blathering about “elites” and some macho posturing for no-deal.

Is that your reply to my post?

OK.

I think that tells me all I need to know about you.


Edit: I'm sure you will get a proper belly rub from the rest of the crowd on here from that reply.
Have a great Christmas all.

[Brad]

People are angry. I get it but let’s calm it down a bit in here. Gizze makes some good points I think. The EU isn’t some wonderous utopia. It has a lot of problems. I do wish we’d stayed in and tried to shape it better, or just gone down with it though.

It’s possible to have compassion for the people brexit adversely affects and to also be pro brexit. If you change anything in any system there’s always a balance around what receives positive and what recieves negative affects.

Both sides will scaremonger and the actual effects will be somewhere in the middle, as with all things.

[gIzzE]

Both sides will scaremonger and the actual effects will be somewhere in the middle, as with all things.

And that is what I have hated about this whole thing.
The absolute bull**** that has come from both sides trying to scare people has done nothing but divide people.

We have got to the point where no one is listening to each other if they think they are 'on the other side'.
You see it on other forums, someone says something, they then get vilified and the poster says "Hold on, I voted the same as you!" and then you get "Oh right, yeah, good post."
It's bizarre.

I think Brexit is such a massive step into the unknown that it is scary and therefore extremely emotional. I can totally get that people feel they have had a massive right pulled away from them, because the reality is....they have.
It is the same for leavers when they feel they have not been listened too, many feel those in charge are still doing everything they can to cancel it.
That emotion then overrides our ability to discuss or even listen to important matters on the subject, it is almost like we 'all' sit there with fingers in our ears going "lalalalalalala, I can't hear you."

I don't know what we can do about that? Probably nothing.

Whatever happens, the only thing I am certain of is the fact the UK will be fine, whether we leave or whether we stay. I just want this whole thing over now, the longer it drags out the more it affects business and causes a divide between people, neither of which anyone wants.

[Brad]

Well said. Completely agree.
Social media helps people to stay in groups that think the same as them.

I struggled with how to vote at the time because I actually researched stuff and saw the pros and cons of both sides. What I wanted was a different EU. I voted to remain in the end because I felt that leaving would be too painful and that either the eu would have to reform or it would fail and if it reformed then great and if it didn’t then it would fail and we’d all fail with it and all at the same time so the pain would be thinned out across all the members.

[Dogg Thang]

Both sides will scaremonger and the actual effects will be somewhere in the middle, as with all things.

Brad, I know you’re just playing peacemaker here and I love you for it but I have to call you out on this statement because I’ve seen it become damaging with this, Trump, modern Nazis and a whole bunch of stuff. It is not the case that there are two extremes and the desired point is right in the middle. It is almost never the case. Take flatearthers. It’s not that one side think the earth is flat and the others think it is round and the truth is somewhere in between. The reality is that one side is horribly misinformed, probably started as a joke and the other side know what they are talking about. With Nazis, they’d be happy if entire races were wiped off the face of the earth. The other side doesn’t want this. The happy solution is not to wipe some of them out. With Brexit, one path brings huge change, upheaval, a political, economic and financial mess. The other path doesn’t bring a comparable mess with the desired outcome being somewhere in the middle. It was simply to go on as normal and keep working at things the way you were. These are not two polar opposites. The truth does not lie in the middle.

It has become clear that centrism for the sake of it only benefits those who seek to shift the centre. So yes, I get what you’re doing but felt the point was important to make.