Streets of rage 4

[Cassius_Smoke]

If you look at KoFXii, which is hand drawn, it looks absolutely stunning. I'm confused why SoR4 looks so pants, clearly its possible for it to look better with more effort.

[Dogg Thang]

is it that the MD resolution is low enough that you can get away with 1-2pixel width gradations to signify depth but you can’t really do that with HD art? If I’m drawing pixel stuff, I’m working like that, but if I’m doing something in higher res, I’m usually using a soft brush or airbrush to darken the edges of the legs to show depth.

Yep, it's this. If you approach the sprites in HD using your high res method here but try to stick to the way the pixel art is broken down what you'll end up with is the kind of photoshop colouring you'll see on the characters on a Rice Krispies box. It's not pleasant. Then trying to match that across frames would be next to impossible, so it would look very inconsistent and wobbly. For the most part, there are very few levels of shading in the pixel art and the benefit of that in pixel art is that you can track it across frames. That becomes much harder in HD when animating. So you'll see in something like that HD Street Fighter 2 they did that some people liked the drawings but the animation is worse even when made over the original sprites (they should have been animated fresh rather than traced over pixel art because that method is badly flawed). Here, they have taken the layer approach from the pixel art so that the shading layers can work across the animation. It looks different but it's probably the closest approach to the pixel art they could get in any decent way.

The actual drawings are better in terms of skill than the original pixel art and I think are more accomplished than the SF2 HD sprites.

It's also important to remember that HD is filling in gaps that would previously have been left to our imagination. The animation in that pixel Blaze gif isn't great at all. But at low res we kind of fill in the gaps (not just in frames but in actual animation quality - not the same thing). So those who have expressed a desire for more frames at higher res are right. Our brains expect better fuller animation as the image gets more refined. Of course, that takes a lot more time and resources. Animation is time consuming.

There are many ways to approach this but, from what I've seen, the approach they've taken is close to being the closest to the intention of the original pixel art in HD. The only places I think it varies significantly is in the use of black line in the sprites (they could have gone for coloured lines for a smoother effect) and similarly the use of the black line in the BGs.

Edit: The creation of the sprites for KoFXII was very different, involving 3D and ultimately being drawn as pixel art and it is pixel art - they are not HD assets.

[randombs]

I didn’t even consider keeping the shading consistent during animation! Thanks for the explanation. It puts all those ‘flash’ games in perspective and I’m more forgiving of them now.

Good point about SSF2HD - the animation was jarring even though the frames were identical to the original.

I have trouble with certain fast HD games running in 30fps without motion blur(e.g. racing games, Sonic Generations). I get tired playing. But I’m perfectly fine playing something like Sega Rally on Saturn at 30fps.

@Cassius, I was going to mention KoFXIII. As DT said, I think they shaded them by making identical 3D models for the lighting. But the sprites are a bit flatter than the Neo Geo games. It might be artistic, though - when I was checking old screenshots, portraits from KoF99 onwards were a lot flatter than in previous games.

[Dogg Thang]

I think the sprites in KoFXII are gorgeous. But search KoFXII or XIII with the word 'jaggies' to see how they went down among a lot of people. Not everyone has our appreciation for pixel art.

[Cassius_Smoke]

I guess that's it isn't it, people want flawless these days.

[Neon Ignition]

If I remember correctly, wasn't the cost of doing the sprite work in KOFXIII prohibitively expensive as well, hence why KOFXII is borderline and in-development version of KOFXIII and why they dropped it for full 3D so quickly?

It's still damned nice though, would have been interesting to see Shodown done like that

[Leon Retro]

Because you're not a pixel artist. Making art in HD gives different results by its very nature.

Why do the characters look like this sort of clipart?



There's also this sort of 'poster art' look about the graphics.

I don't think this has anything to do with HD, but all to do with art direction. Drawing things in a HD resolution doesn't mean there has to be less detail. No, you could put tons of detail and shading to create a style that reminds people of old school pixel art but in HD. There's no reason why it couldn't look really impressive.

When I look at the graphics in SOR4 -- I see a clear clipart/poster art style. It looks flat and cheap to my eyes. But that's just my taste, so if some people really love the look/style, then good for them. I just have my own idea of what SOR4 could look like if a different approach had been taken with the graphics. There is simply no reason why 2D in HD has to equal a clipart look. It might work with some games that suit a minimalist, subtle graphic style, but I don't think it works well for a scrolling beat 'em up.

I could go on and on talking about why the developer might have chosen this style, but it was probably down to cost. Maybe creating a game like SOR4 with really detailed, ambitious graphics would take years of craft, and therefore cost far more to make. Whatever the case -- I think it's clear that quite a few people don't like how SOR4 looks for various reasons. I'm just disappointed with the look/style of the graphics.

[Dogg Thang]

you could put tons of detail and shading to create a style that reminds people of old school pixel art but in HD.

The pixel art doesn't have tons of detail and shading. And if you put in tons of detail and shading you probably couldn't animate it and it would look like a mess with smaller characters. So yeah, you could do this but it would be wrong, prohibitive and wouldn't look like the pixel art either. You keep saying there is "no reason" but you have been given reasons. There are many reasons. No problem that this style isn't to your liking. It's not to your tastes, that's really all there is to it. But in terms of what you think it could be, sometimes you just have to accept something isn't your area.

[randombs]

With a larger budget and the motivation, I’m sure they could do exactly what you’re asking for. But they’re hardly going to spend insane money on an SoR sequel, c’mon.

And no one is saying 2D HD has to look like clip art. It’s just a much more efficient use of time and money.

[Dogg Thang]

Calling it clip art does a huge disservice to it. As does using clip art as an insult, really. All that is on display here is a preference. Nothing more.

[Asura]

Strongly recommend people read this:

http://www.dinofarmgames.com/a-pixel-artist-renounces-pixel-art/

I imagine many people here have already seen it.

[Deuteros]

I posted that a while ago but it got lost when the forum's backups failed. It's a very interesting, albeit sad, read.

[Dogg Thang]

It makes a lot of really good points and very relevant to this discussion. And yes, it’s kind of sad but all true.

[eastyy]

Oh i loved the Look of KOF XII and XIII, was really disappointed they did not continue that.

Though when it comes from 2d to 3d the only game i was really wrong about was Guilty gear Xrd....that did blow me away.


I really wish they would show more of Sor4

[Leon Retro]

Calling it clip art does a huge disservice to it. As does using clip art as an insult, really. All that is on display here is a preference. Nothing more.

Looks 100% like that comic book creation program from the 90s where you paste clipart characters into preset scenarios.

If you can't see that -- then that's not my problem. It has nothing to do with "insults" or "preference." I actually feel it's a bit of an insult to have to debate a clear fact. My view has nothing to do with nostalgia, preference, anger etc... I'm simply expressing a dislike for the graphics in SOR4 that have a look similar to clipart characters being pasted into environments that don't blend together well. The whole effect just doesn't look attractive to my eyes. I'd say it looks cheap and amateurish.

Of course, some people might like the style. I'm just saying I don't. That feeling isn't malicious -- it's just an honest expression of how I feel when I look at the graphics. I'd rather forget about SOR4, because it's not a game I'll be buying.