Course claims you can learn web development in 5 months

[gunrock]

[MENTION=15749]Protocol Penguin[/MENTION] here you go:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+python+and+how+is+it+different+to+html

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+linux

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=How+is+java+script+related+to+html

This is either world class trolling or incredible unawareness of one's ability to help yourself. Either way, I'm oot.

[cutmymilk]

I teach computer science in secondary school. Start with Hour of Code, then Scratch, then move onto Python and finally Visual Basic. That is a standard key stage 2 to university pathway that will give you a deep understanding of fundementals and a variety of programming environments.

Scratch is anything but kiddy. Find any half decent game on the scratch website and click "see inside" for the code that was written by a 12 year old genius.

[monel]

I've been working in web development for over 15 years. It's not an easy option. To be good at it, you always need to be looking to improve and learn new things. I've never found the coding itself especially difficult, but some people do. There's a bit of an alarm bell ringing for me in that you said you tried programming in the past and hated it. Before investing any money, find a few free online beginners tutorials, and give them a go, see how you feel about it now. At the start, the language isn't even that important, the initial principals you need to get your head around are very similar in most languages. Try doing some programming, any programming, and if you find you're enjoying it and it isn't blowing your mind, you can then choose something you want to focus on. Javascript, as the tutorial focusses on, is certainly not a bad option to learn. Although their claim that PHP is "outdated" is a little ridiculous. Mobile apps is a very crowded market. It takes huge financial backing or/(and?) a lot of luck to launch a successful app these days. That's not to say you couldn't eventually get a job working on mobile apps, if it's an area that interested you. You're not going to become a "guru" in 5 months, but then you don't need to be a guru to get a junior developer role somewhere. You're then earning money and you can begin to get experience to work your way up.

OK I want to ask some questions I hope they're not too simplistic to grate on the nerves of you pros here. I only quoted ZipZap because he's working in web development. And I don't know how to do the multiple post quotes, lol.

QualityChimp- I'm not interested in doing it to make loads of money I just want to find work that doesn't feel like it's a dead end position. Also the pay for beginners doesn't seem to be much compared to all the learning I'll have to do. If my degree marks hadn't been capped there's a couple of fields I could've gone into, but that's the past now I guess. I read online that you can top up your degree marks with Open University courses but I don't have the funds.

Questions if any of you kind souls are willing to answer. My health plays a big part in this. I want to say what my condition is but I'm a bit paranoid. Basically I stay healthy for a few years then I can get ill for a few months, usually triggered by stress. That's why my former mentor suggested the NHS or Civil Service even in entry positions as they provide a decent time off ill for genuine reasons. Some of you working for them may have differing opinions, though. Anyways, my health is a huge factor.

1. Cutmymilk - I purchased the course I linked to on page one for a very cheap price - my friend says I need to know some programming basics for it. Also I read reviews on another site and they mentioned the guy skims through HTML. So I was going to begin with one programming language then HTML basics and then start his course. There's another guy on Udemy called Colt Steele or something (sounds like a cousin of the Fall Guy or some other hollywood legend) he covers the very basics onwards and is highly recommended but I didn't purchase his course. There's a British guy doing a very similar course, too, on Udemy.

Anyways, Cutmymilk - the learning flow you described, how much time would it take if spend up to 30 or 40 hours a week on it? I was considering trying Python based on the link to the online book posted in this thread it looks really good for beginners.

2. In another thread you guys on here were discussing jobs and someone mentioned web developers and designers have flooded the market in recent years - is this true? Online various people say there's still demand but they seem U.S-centric and there's loads from India.

3. ZipZap - thank you very much for your reply. I realise it's not an easy option. I have tried some very, very basic programming tutorials yesterday and I actually found them interesting and fun. Baby stuff but I did not hate it at all like I once did. You touched upon one of my concerns - that it involves life long learning. My illness has a side effect of cognitive decline (no doctor ever told me that) and I think my memory will be playing up in years to come.

I see there's so many different tools and environments employers ask for as well as computing degrees - do you have to be constantly learning new tools? There's a guy whose experience I came across online, he's self taught and he mentions constantly thinking about coding on his days off and coming home with migraines. Is it very stressful? Are you constantly studying in your time off? Also, if I do that course and work on some projects afterwards and learn more skills could I get a junior developer job in the near future? Say a year or so?

4. Problem solving and maths for programming - what level of maths do you need? I passed GCSE maths with a good grade but I never ever liked maths. Some people always point out that mathematical people take to programming far easier. Algorithms sound scary to me. Problem solving is highlighted as the main element of programming - can you hone your problem solving skills over time? I'm thinking of neuroplasticity the concept that the brain can change over time, basically I suck at puzzles and couldn't solve a Rubiks Cube to save my life. Isn't programming then a hugely challenging field to work in, constantly solving issues?

5. My friend suggested Website Design instead as I did some basic design and writing projects in the past. He also said you have to have a love of programming otherwise don't consider it as a field to go into for work.

6. People online suggest having a mentor if you want to learn how to code. How the hell do you find a mentor. I have some extended family who are experts in the IT world but we are not in touch and likely never will be again.

7. Do any of you know anything about a training site called TeamTreeHouse? They charge like 20 a month for training. In America people also seem to find work through bootcamps but they charge like ten grand or so. Thanks for reading and sorry for any stupid sounding questions. I have googled quite a fair bit on this but I trust the opinions of the members here.

Replicashooter thanks for the kind words in your first reply on page one.

[ZipZap]

3. ZipZap - thank you very much for your reply. I realise it's not an easy option. I have tried some very, very basic programming tutorials yesterday and I actually found them interesting and fun. Baby stuff but I did not hate it at all like I once did. You touched upon one of my concerns - that it involves life long learning. My illness has a side effect of cognitive decline (no doctor ever told me that) and I think my memory will be playing up in years to come.


I see there's so many different tools and environments employers ask for as well as computing degrees - do you have to be constantly learning new tools? There's a guy whose experience I came across online, he's self taught and he mentions constantly thinking about coding on his days off and coming home with migraines. Is it very stressful? Are you constantly studying in your time off? Also, if I do that course and work on some projects afterwards and learn more skills could I get a junior developer job in the near future? Say a year or so?

I've never found it particularly stressful. I've only worked for two businesses in 16 and-a-bit years, so my experience of different employers is limited, but certainly as a senior developer in my current job, I set reasonable timescales with my boss. He accepts that we need to introduce new things sometimes, and there will be an element of learning involved, so development might be a little slower. It's not like we're introducing new things every week though. I read blog posts and books and might sometimes have a play around with something new in my spare time, but it's not excessive a all, and I'm certainly not coming home with migraines! That said, it's not always an easy job, and things are never going to stand still, so I guess you have to try and weigh up with your illness how much you think you'll be capable of further down the line.


Whether you could get a job within a year kind of depends how well you pick it up. If you're spending 30-40 hours a week on it, as you mentioned, I think it's certainly possible. Once you're starting to feel more confident of your abilities, it's probably worth trying to get some work experience, or as someone suggested earlier in the thread, perhaps try and contribute to an open source project.

4. Problem solving and maths for programming - what level of maths do you need? I passed GCSE maths with a good grade but I never ever liked maths. Some people always point out that mathematical people take to programming far easier. Algorithms sound scary to me. Problem solving is highlighted as the main element of programming - can you hone your problem solving skills over time? I'm thinking of neuroplasticity the concept that the brain can change over time, basically I suck at puzzles and couldn't solve a Rubiks Cube to save my life. Isn't programming then a hugely challenging field to work in, constantly solving issues?

I have a GCSE in maths, but no other maths qualifications. I was naturally quite good at maths, but never really enjoyed it very much. Something like web development doesn't usually require complex maths. Some progromming jobs may. As far as problem solving goes, there are common programming patterns to approach certain situations, which you'd probably get used to as you become more experienced. You certainly get used to thinking in code, but you do need to know how to think through a problem.

5. My friend suggested Website Design instead as I did some basic design and writing projects in the past. He also said you have to have a love of programming otherwise don't consider it as a field to go into for work.

If you're planning to do something for almost 40 hours a week, you certainly need to be pretty motivated I've always enjoyed making things on computers. It's just what I've done since I was really young. There are other roles in the web-world beyond programming such as UI/UX Design, SEO/PPC, copywriting etc.

6. People online suggest having a mentor if you want to learn how to code. How the hell do you find a mentor. I have some extended family who are experts in the IT world but we are not in touch and likely never will be again.

I mentioned Hackspaces to Protocol Penguin. There are quite a few dotted around and the one my friend is involved with has a weekly code club which I *think* is free. Not exactly mentoring, but there will probably be more experienced developers there who would be able to give you some tips. There's also https://stackoverflow.com

[MartyG]

The job can get stressful if you're up against tight deadlines for immovable release dates, but day-to-day not really - however, different people react differently to different situations; I've always enjoyed working with computers and creating things out of bits and bytes. There is very much a creative aspect to design & programming. There are also boring parts too, like support and maintenance.

You are learning all the time with the job, but environments don't change week-to-week or even month-to-month. New libraries and APIs come along quite often, so being able to work out how to use the interfaces to these means trawling through documentation sometimes. Stackoverflow mentioned above is a good resource for code examples - there's nothing wrong with standing on the shoulders of giants; if you have a software problem, there's probably someone out there who has already solved it and shared their experience.

As for maths, it really depends on what you're coding. Most of the maths I need to do is statistics based, so it's relatively trivial compared to what you'd need if you were writing a physics based system or 3D graphics engine. Logic skills are a big requirement though; you need to be able to think things through methodically.

There really isn't much point in going into this job if you don't enjoy working with computers - the people I've met through my career generally have an enthusiasm for all things tech - we get excited about the new Raspberry Pi release, or creating elegant software solutions. If you don't have a passion for it, that will come through in any interview you go to down the road.

There are plenty of code clubs out there that would be worth seeking out - obviously it'll depend on where you live, but web sites like meetup will be worth a look. There are big scenes around the Raspberry Pi - so look out for Raspberry Pi Jams. You might find someone willing to mentor you at events like these, you'll certainly find peers

[Protocol Penguin]

[MENTION=9333]kryss[/MENTION] [MENTION=2492]cutmymilk[/MENTION] [MENTION=13392]ZipZap[/MENTION] all very helpful, thanks!

[MENTION=13392]ZipZap[/MENTION] is maths ability a deal-breaker? I failed GCSE Maths twice, and struggle with even basic maths TBH. Have looked into Hackspaces, local one seems to be about crafting stuff with 3D printers rather than programming, so I’ll look for other options.

[cutmymilk]

Problem solving and sequencing is important, not so much maths. After all, you are going to tell the computer to work things out for you. However, you do have to be able to tell it how to do this.

Without trying to take the mick, I would start with these for your first week:

https://www.thebookpeople.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/qs_product_tbp?productId=639697&catalogId=10051

You will learn the basics of programming, some theory that I use to teach GCSE pupils and there are a lot of fun projects that you can expand upon.

There are a million Python courses, but the code on the sites linked to here look really good for beginners. It is the type of code I would teach to year 9 pupils.

[Protocol Penguin]

Went and had another look at Codeacademy. Tried Ruby: https://www.codecademy.com/courses/l...uby/exercises/

Am I missing something, or does this require you to be able to program already, and this is just a 'conversion course' type deal? Because I literally can't get anywhere with this, even the first few 'challenges' offered. This is mindbendingly difficult.

[kryss]

We can't see it without signing up. Do you want to post an example?

[MartyG]

"This course assumes no previous knowledge of Ruby in particular or programming/computer science in general."

It starts by introducing variables and variable types then It's asking you to set variable values that it's already defined for you in the text editor.

Instructions

1. Set the following variables to the corresponding values:

my_num to the value 25
my_boolean to the value true (note the capitalization!)
my_string to the value "Ruby"

The code is ...

my_num = # Add your code here!

my_boolean = # And here!

my_string = # Also here.

puts my_num
puts my_boolean
puts my_string

When you click the hint link it tells you: "You can set a variable to a value just by typing the value after the = sign."
It's telling you to type the value 25 into the text editor where it says "# Add your code here!" right after the = sign.

So after doing as instructed, the code should look like

my_num = 25

my_boolean = true

my_string = "Ruby"

puts my_num
puts my_boolean
puts my_string

That is all you have to do. Maybe it should have had an actual example of setting a variable properly (although when you click through the the next exercise it does just that), but the above is what it should look like, so if you can't follow this now then programming is definitely not for you. Variables are one of the absolute basic building blocks of coding - the things that hold data that will be manipulated and tested by the program. Everything after that requires you to understand what a variable is.

[Protocol Penguin]

I’ll try a different website or a different coding or both. That just looks like a pretty bad and user unfriendly guide.

[MartyG]

It won't matter what language you look at - they all use variables - you're going to have to learn what a variable is at some point - the above really doesn't get any simpler than that.

[Protocol Penguin]

Well, if there’s an explanation about what a variable is... And I’m not convinced that the codeacademy website doesn’t require prior knowledge, looking at it again.

[MartyG]

INTRODUCTION TO RUBY

Variables

One of the most basic concepts in computer programming is the variable. You can think of a variable as a word or name that grasps a single value. For example, let's say you needed the number 25 from our last example, but you're not going to use it right away. You can set a variable, say my_num, to grasp the value 25 and hang onto it for later use, like this:

my_num = 25

https://www.codecademy.com/courses/l...ises/variables - it's on page 3 of the course.

[Protocol Penguin]

If I’m being honest, that I find extremely jargon-y, and I don’t understand what it’s trying to say.

Edit: I’ll have another look later, but the jargon already is getting pretty heavy.