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  1. #11
    Whilst we're at it, here's the tease for the next thread: Justin Bailey

  2. #12
    Metroid?




    Last edited by _SD_; 26-01-2018 at 09:10 PM.

  3. #13
    I think it's VF2 for me, wasn't a big fan of the series when I was younger, it's only really clicked with me as I got older.

    That Iron Man gamesmaster episode was a joke they just grabbed 100 kids off the street, some great interviews about the shows.

  4. #14
    I'm hoping people still play VF5 over XBL seeing as I'm lugging my console back home with me. Is this the case?

  5. #15
    Some very surprising responses in this thread; I would've expected VF to be pretty universally loved at a place like this.

    So as you may have already figured out, I'm a big VF fan and always was. It was actually the first fighting game I really got into, from the perspective of really understanding how it worked on a more-than-superficial level.

    I grew up doing martial arts. I was never particularly good at it; it's not like I was ever going to be a professional kickboxer or something, but I grew up around karate dojos, judo classes and grappling tournaments. Started when I was 6, watching TMNT, and my parents asked me if I wanted to try doing real martial arts. As a result, although I always loved Street Fighter and such, as a kid, I always felt it was a shame that fighting games were jazzed up with super powers and energy-manipulating moves, when to me, free-fighting was exciting enough just with what real people could do.

    Consequently I loved Virtua Fighter. It'd be wrong to say the game was "realistic", but by the standards of the era, it certainly was. Some of the characters have more out-there styles (like Kage-Maru) but some, like Jacky, have fighting styles that are grounded in reality. I remember being blown away when I saw it in the arcade, even with the characters' basic moves and idle stances, flexing their fingers and shifting their weight in the punches and kicks.

    It was one of the games I got for Christmas with my Saturn, and I played it for months afterwards, right up until the launch of VF2, which felt even better, and was the origin of my preference for 50/60FPS in 3D games. As a result VF2 has had an enormous effect on my gaming life, perhaps more than any other single game.

    It's also interesting how it worked, as a fighting system. VF's big changes to the fighting game formula were its mid-attacks and the counter system.

    All the characters in VF have standing high, middle and low attacks. This is different to Street Fighter II where most characters only have high and low (SF would, later, incorporate this idea into Alpha and subsequent games). Characters can block high-and-middle when standing but only block low when crouching. Also when crouching, characters will evade high attacks but are very vulnerable to middles, and middle attacks tend to be quite fast. I believe some attacks (like Akira's body-check) make contact on multiple heights, too. Characters have jumping attacks too, but this was not much a big focus of the game (and would be significantly reduced in focus post-VF1). This all meant that a good defensive strategy in VF needs to involve a great deal of movement and timing of when to stand and when to crouch. Blocking an entire combo in VF was incredibly satisfying.

    Additionally the counters; characters could be knocked into the air for "floating" combos (later called "juggle" combos in other games), but they would go higher if struck during their recovery frames for an unsuccessful attack. This meant that for characters like Lau, Kage and Sarah, there was a great deal of importance in mastering the counters.

    One other matter is that VF always strives for zero move redundancy. For instance, in Tekken, all characters have two basic throws. Why? They do pretty much the same damage, connect in the same way... They have different animations but in gameplay terms it's wasteful. One of those moves (the weaker one) is redundant. In VF, every move has a unique purpose; a concept stretched to its limit by characters like Shun Di in VF2 who possess really large movesets.


    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    I've never liked the series, but I'm not sure I've ever fully understood how to play it. I thought the first was boring, and simply preferred other 3D offerings.
    Virtua Fighter's problem is that the core gameplay, once mastered is wonderful, but the game is very bad at conveying the user to this point. The first game in the arcades had the wow-factor of being the first proper 3D fighter of note, which carried it a bit, but not so much with the subsequent games. As a VF fan, it's very hard to sell VF to someone who is new to it - especially now.

    For starters, in Tekken, right from day 1, if the user hammered the buttons, the characters would do interesting things. The game still had the depth for an expert to beat a button-basher but at least the button-basher would have a good time. In VF, if you button-bash, the character will probably just do basic punches and kicks in a jerky, bad-looking fashion. You have to at least be reasonable to exact any real enjoyment out of the game.

    Fighting games have among the highest levels of community elitism of any game genre, and part of VF's problem is that I believe the fanbase liked this a little too much. They liked that their game was this weird, closed-off sector that was punishing for newbies. Well, now they can see how that worked out, with VF being something of a dead franchise.

    And it's a shame! Because I firmly believe that VF is a superior game to Tekken in almost every way (in gameplay terms).

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I also don't agree with the slack VF 3 on the DC gets (it's 98% Arcade perfect and a brilliant game) ... Can only hope, what with SEGA Japan Arcade teams being on fire at the moment, AM#2 are working on VF 6 and hopefully bring back VF3 multi layered environments
    Personally though I loved VF3, I think in the west, VF3tb's problem was that it went up against Soul Calibur, which I suspect most people would consider the superior game. Like what I said above, VF's amazing when mastered but Soul Calibur worked on many different levels, from beginner to expert, and had a great deal of content. It lacked character balance and other things but these only matter to people like us who really care about that. Calibur looked fantastic too, whereas VF3 looked incredible at launch but it was already a bit older when it saw console release.

    I can't personally defend the multi-layered environments though. I thought they were cool in theory but I didn't like them in practice. Mainly because the stages weren't symmetrical, which for me is a real no-no in fighting games of that nature (admittedly the Soul Calibur games repeatedly make the same mistake; several stages in SC1 were hugely advantageous for one player over another).

    It's a shame, because due to it's weird between-consoles limbo, Virtua Fighter 3 has a similar feel to SCUD Race for me - like it had the potential to be a classic, but that was marred by timing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogg Thang View Post
    I had VF2 and 3 but I have to admit to never really liking either of them. They seemed all tappy-tappy and memory-testy when I far preferred the Capcom systems.
    Well certainly it was tappy, because that was the control system. Personally I think it was more reactive than most other fighters; it was great just how responsive it was, especially VF2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marius View Post
    I've always found this series very forgettable compared to other fighting games. The characters are not at all memorable.
    Admittedly this is something that Tekken and Soul Calibur always had over VF. VF's characters are more like archetypes; their characterisation is all in what they do as opposed to who they are. Tekken had a big enough story aspect to warrant several movies (all crap, but they exist), which was borne out of its characters having significantly more background detail. This was partially because VF pre-dated those games.

    Fighting Vipers was Sega's attempt to get in on that action, but I actually think that game did worse, despite obviously trying to do better. Ditto for Last Bronx, though I think that didn't go far because Sega didn't have faith in it (it's a pretty good game with well-designed characters).

    Anyway, I really hope we'll see a VF6, but I just can't see it happening. Maybe it is better that the series remains how it is, and gradually fades off, rather than becoming something it was never supposed to be. I would love, for example, for a VF capable of mass-market success but maybe that would just compromise the game too much.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogg Thang View Post
    I had VF2 and 3 but I have to admit to never really liking either of them. They seemed all tappy-tappy and memory-testy when I far preferred the Capcom systems.
    I'm with this man.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Asura View Post
    Some very surprising responses in this thread; I would've expected VF to be pretty universally loved at a place like this.
    You're about 15 years too late.

  8. #18
    One thing that I remember bugging me back in the day was the discrepancy between the feel on the ground and feel in the air. On the ground, it was quick with short sharp moves. Then you jump and it floats, like you’re rising up with no gravity through an invisible layer of treacle. The two things didn’t match. I just didn’t enjoy it.

    But the high res textures on VF2 were certainly impressive.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogg Thang View Post
    One thing that I remember bugging me back in the day was the discrepancy between the feel on the ground and feel in the air. On the ground, it was quick with short sharp moves. Then you jump and it floats, like you’re rising up with no gravity through an invisible layer of treacle. The two things didn’t match. I just didn’t enjoy it.
    Yeah; I have often wondered if jumping was an afterthought for VF. The characters jump in a similar manner to 2D fighters, but because it's in 3D, it looks odd. Obviously in VF they have the kind of "hop-jump" too (I think, in VF3 onwards, characters only have this and don't have the high jumps).

    Obscure bit of knowledge; if you perform a kickflip on a jumping character in VF1, the damage is immense. Nearly a 100% kill. I think the only more powerful move in the game is Jeffrey's behind-throw, where he performs a backbreaker, which is also almost 100% damage. Though of course, in VF1, you almost never get the opportunity to use it (it's unusual to be behind the opponent in VF1).

  10. #20
    I think one of the issues Virtua Fighter faced as it went on was that its reputation overtook the games themselves. They built up such a reputation of being technical showcases for players with high level skills that it led many players to feel like they might as well take their casual play elsewhere. Coupled with other franchises greater leaning towards flashy visuals, it made VF look very conservative. VF5 really needed to be a very visually bold title with a lot of emphasis on targeting casual audiences, with Sega relying on their knowledge that the core gameplay would still cater to the existing audience. Instead, I remember VF fans anticipating the last game but that anticipation being much muted compared to other franchises despite the success VF4 had been.

    Not sure if this is real either but as a curio to add to the thread (it's all CG) here's the supposed trailer for Virtua Fighter 3 on the Saturn. I remember hearing at the time it had aired but I never saw it:


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