Battle of the Ports

[Nu-Eclipse]

I like seeing the Sharp ports myself. Never played one so nice to get a look at how they run.

Me too.

Lest we forget, the Sharp X68000 was, for a long time, the machine that was used to develop CPS-1 games (something Capcom themselves confirmed). So if anything, the coin-op versions of Final Fight, SF2 and other Capcom classics of that era are technically ports themselves!

[nakamura]

Ha! That's pretty interesting! I knew it was close but no idea it was that close.

[Team Andromeda]

Me too.

Lest we forget, the Sharp X68000 was, for a long time, the machine that was used to develop CPS-1 games (something Capcom themselves confirmed). So if anything, the coin-op versions of Final Fight, SF2 and other Capcom classics of that era are technically ports themselves!

but the Sharp at the time was a high end pic and cost loads more than either the MD or the Snes it was a given that due to the power and memory the X68000 was going to have the better port compared to those systems ,. Iooking over that I think you over play the 3 player mode on MERCS even on the Saturn or PS I didn't know of many people that have a multi tap and I'm not a massive fan of 2 player modes in shooters it just tends to add to more slowdown and more confusion on screen for the home consoles at the time

I always liked MERCS more on the MD myself

[Nu-Eclipse]

but the Sharp at the time was a high end pic and cost loads more than either the MD or the Snes it was a given that due to the power and memory the X68000 was going to have the better port compared to those systems ,. Iooking over that I think you over play the 3 player mode on MERCS even on the Saturn or PS I didn't know of many people that have a multi tap and I'm not a massive fan of 2 player modes in shooters it just tends to add to more slowdown and more confusion on screen for the home consoles at the time

I always liked MERCS more on the MD myself

Whether the X68000 cost loads or not is really netiher here nor there. After Burner/After Burner II got a rubbish X68000 port, for example. As Yakumo and others have alluded to, it's the skill of the devs doing the port that is key. The hardware power is great but not the decisive factor in all cases when it comes to porting.

I think you're underplaying the multiplayer aspect of it. The fact remains, regardless of what you say about it, that multiplayer co-op was how Capcom originally intended Mercs to be experienced at its optimum. Once again, I'm not knocking the MD port. As I've said over and over I think the MD port is great. But the overrated retooling of 1P mode that is Original mode doesn't (imo) make up for the MD port lacking multiplayer options - a key aspect of the Mercs experience when all is said and done. That is why I consider it inferior.

As for Mercs being slowed down and made confusing by multiplayer? That must be just your personal experience of it as I've played the coin-op and the Capcom Generations port millions of times in 2P and 3P and I've certainly never experienced any slowing down of the gameplay nor has there been any confusion any time I've played it that way.

[Leon Retro]

Hmm, I understand where you are coming from but i feel they are still valid because they are not emulation. This is one of the main reasons why I don't cover many of the later PS2, Xbox and upwards ports as they basically are emulated. The Saturn and PlayStation versions are running on a unique engine built for the system, not emulating the arcade code.

I didn't know they weren't emulated, as you'd think they were. Yeah, it would be mad to cover PS2 & Xbox emulated games.

Thinking about this issue, I'm talking about 1980s and early-1990s coin-ops. Powerful machines like the X68000, PS1 and Saturn, running those really old games, means they will be far more authentic(usually near arcade perfect) compared to ports to 8-bit computers and consoles - and consoles like the PC-Engine, SNES & Mega Drive.

So, what I'm saying is: I think it's interesting to see what devs did with arcade ports to mainstream, affordable 8 and 16-bit machines, as the home hardware is less capable than the arcade hardware. When you see Final Fight on the X68000, it's cool to think you could have an arcade perfect port back in those days, but it's not really impressive given the hardware is the same as CPS1. With the Saturn & PS1 - I think it's interesting to see what Capcom did with CPS2 games on those machines, but I'm not interested in the fact that CPS1 games look arcade perfect(or near), because that's what you expect. The developer didn't have to be clever porting them.

[Team Andromeda]

Whether the X68000 cost loads or not is really netiher here nor there. After Burner/After Burner II got a rubbish X68000 port, for example. As Yakumo and others have alluded to, it's the skill of the devs doing the port that is key. The hardware power is great but not the decisive factor in all cases when it comes to porting.

It's as a huge impact . I really don't think anyone would be expect a general console like the NES, MS or MD and Snes to be able to out perform HIGH end PC's like the Marty or the X68000 .
No matter the skill or the team, they was no way a Mega Drive or Snes ports of a Neo Geo games were ever going to be perfect , never mind High End coin up's from the likes of SEGA or TATIO

I think you're underplaying the multiplayer aspect of it. The fact remains, regardless of what you say about it, that multiplayer co-op was how Capcom originally intended Mercs to be experienced at its optimum. Once again, I'm not knocking the MD port

Like Capcom did with Final Fight and Area 88 yet the Snes ports were horrible compromised in that reguard - Still for many gamers it was the best they could hope for and be able to play in the home and afford at the time . When most Arcade games were made at the time, they were never made with the home market in mind at all . Darius/2 was not the same played in the home not matter the hardware or skill of the team, but there again one couldn't really expect monster 3 screen set up in ones home.

As for Mercs being slowed down and made confusing by multiplayer?

I didn't just single out MERCS but 'shooters' and also made the point of saying 'consoles of the time': For most MD and Snes shooters the moment you played in 2 player mode in came more slowdown and in some games is becomes really hard to see your player/ship.

I never really liked 2 player modes in shooters , but more side scorlling beat them up's

[Nu-Eclipse]

It's as a huge impact . I really don't think anyone would be expect a general console like the NES, MS or MD and Snes to be able to out perform HIGH end PC's like the Marty or the X68000 .
No matter the skill or the team, they was no way a Mega Drive or Snes ports of a Neo Geo games were ever going to be perfect , never mind High End coin up's from the likes of SEGA or TATIO

Again, the power of hardware for porting arcade games simply isn't the be all and end all.

The PCE played host to more arcade ports than the SNES or MD and it sure as hell wasn't as powerful as they were. PCE R-Type is rightfully regarded as one of the best P4P home ports ever and that is clearly down to the technical abilities of the devs to get the very best out of PCE hardware.

Like Capcom did with Final Fight and Area 88 yet the Snes ports were horrible compromised in that reguard - Still for many gamers it was the best they could hope for and be able to play in the home and afford at the time . When most Arcade games were made at the time, they were never made with the home market in mind at all.

That still doesn't change the fact that the multiplayer options of those games were key features. They were how the games were originally meant to be played and they were missing in those home ports, so those home ports are inferior precisely because of that. That is my point.

[Team Andromeda]

Again, the power of hardware for porting arcade games simply isn't the be all and end all.

Only it is ,if Arcade perfect is what you want and what you're after .No way would even the best team in the world be able to make System 22 games arcade perfect on the PS

The PCE played host to more arcade ports than the SNES or MD and it sure as hell wasn't as powerful as they were

Well looking over the facts that most of the PC -Eng ports were missing features . I'll just say that the PC Eng had some lovely hardware but even with that R-Type on the PC eng was far from Arcade perfect and I'm sure R-Type could have been done better on the MD .

They were how the games were originally meant to be played

Well no Arcade games in the 80s or 90's were really made to be played in the home . So any home port would always suffer. I don't think the 3 player mode in MERCS makes the game myself . Just like I never really had a issue with Konami port of Turtles to the Snes, there was no way the Snes was going to be able to handle the 4 player mode

[Yakumo]

I didn't know they weren't emulated, as you'd think they were. Yeah, it would be mad to cover PS2 & Xbox emulated games.

Thinking about this issue, I'm talking about 1980s and early-1990s coin-ops. Powerful machines like the X68000, PS1 and Saturn, running those really old games, means they will be far more authentic(usually near arcade perfect) compared to ports to 8-bit computers and consoles - and consoles like the PC-Engine, SNES & Mega Drive.

So, what I'm saying is: I think it's interesting to see what devs did with arcade ports to mainstream, affordable 8 and 16-bit machines, as the home hardware is less capable than the arcade hardware. When you see Final Fight on the X68000, it's cool to think you could have an arcade perfect port back in those days, but it's not really impressive given the hardware is the same as CPS1. With the Saturn & PS1 - I think it's interesting to see what Capcom did with CPS2 games on those machines, but I'm not interested in the fact that CPS1 games look arcade perfect(or near), because that's what you expect. The developer didn't have to be clever porting them.

Good points and again I can understand where you are coming from. Maybe it would be better to point out the best of the weaker systems as well as the overall best version?

[CMcK]

Most home conversions on the PC-E, MD and SFC were held back by limited ROM sizes more than anything else. Yakumo you do a great job with BotP and should keep it as it is.

[Yakumo]

Most home conversions on the PC-E, MD and SFC were held back by limited ROM sizes more than anything else. Yakumo you do a great job with BotP and should keep it as it is.

That's so true about the MD and SNES being held back by ROM size. With todays storage it's been proven that the MD can produce some amazing sampled music and with games such as Water Mellon's Project Y, it can handle massive sprites too like a Neo Geo beat'em up.

Oh, thanks for the nice comment about my show

[Team Andromeda]

That's so true about the MD and SNES being held back by ROM size

Yes that was big issue on early games , but even with a massive carts the Mega Drive and Snes would have issues with ports of the likes of Power Drift and the like and while SF II was a massive cart it was far from arcade pefcet . SOR II proved the MD could handle massive sprites and Fatal Fury on the PC-Eng CD-Rom shows what a differnce Ram can make.

Ram always hold back consoles the Saturn and PS could have done so much more, never mind the 360 and PS3

[CMcK]

I think memory bandwidth would strangle the Saturn more than lack of RAM. But it did have the underutilised cart slot. It would be interesting to see what the Saturn could do with a huge NGDevTeam style cart game.

[Nu-Eclipse]

Well no Arcade games in the 80s or 90's were really made to be played in the home . So any home port would always suffer. I don't think the 3 player mode in MERCS makes the game myself . Just like I never really had a issue with Konami port of Turtles to the Snes, there was no way the Snes was going to be able to handle the 4 player mode

Multiplayer is still a key component of Mercs. It is still how the game was originally intended. Nothing you say changes that.

Turtles in Time on the SNES had 2-player at the very least. Why? Because Konami recognised that there was at least a minimum requirement for the port to have some multiplayer aspect, as opposed to none at all.

[baad bwoy]

I love Battle Of the Ports, keep up the good work Yakumo