LCD/Plasma/CRT/DLP - more questions

[gIzzE]

You say when you introduce brightness, you mean when there is white on screen?
The contrast may be a bit high, and this does effect the black level, drop that down a couple of clicks and then adjust the black level again.

These sets do struggle a bit showing a full white screen, you need to make sure that the when you go from a 25% window to a 50% to a 75% to a 100% window that white is the same, if you find it dimming at 75% then you have contrast too high and that can cause issues in darker areas.
It is a balancing act.

However, I thought it was pretty good out of the box.

What did you have before?

[punio75]

Jeez, buying a new tele is daunting!
Virtually convinced myself to try and get a plasma (panny ST60) and start reading this thread.
Confusing!!

[CMcK]

If you are buying a decent TV budget for pro calibration. It's well worth it.

[gIzzE]

Jeez, buying a new tele is daunting!
Virtually convinced myself to try and get a plasma (panny ST60) and start reading this thread.
Confusing!!

I have never heard anyone else complain about it.

Depends what you are coming from though, if you have been used to a TV that simply can't do the lower ire range than when you do get one you can mistake it for crushing dark areas, but it may actually be doing it properly.

[PaTaito]

You say when you introduce brightness, you mean when there is white on screen?
The contrast may be a bit high, and this does effect the black level, drop that down a couple of clicks and then adjust the black level again.

These sets do struggle a bit showing a full white screen, you need to make sure that the when you go from a 25% window to a 50% to a 75% to a 100% window that white is the same, if you find it dimming at 75% then you have contrast too high and that can cause issues in darker areas.
It is a balancing act.

However, I thought it was pretty good out of the box.

What did you have before?

You are preaching to the choir gizze unfortunately, i've tried contrast everywhere between the halfway point and maximum...which ironically improves dark areas the most, at the cost of some weird colour reproduction, and misty whites. I've spent so many hours trying different things, the only reason it hasnt been returned yet is because i've been so busy.

When i say introduce brightness, i mean when the 16-235 screen of mixed black/white on the AVC-HD disc is introduced, the levels change more than you would expect, as i said previously it crushed quite a few black levels out when you think you have the perfect setting on the previous blacker than black screen.

Personally i think the TV has a gamma curve that is out of whack.

I was watching jerry mcguire on netflix yesterday, and rene's hair in one part(during a very well lit scene) was blonde and then there is this big ugly black hole in the middle whereit should be shaded....NOT black.

Also in FIFA 14 when playing in a stadium where the weather is sunny, and you get that shaded area of one half of the pitch, if a team has a fairly dark strip in that shaded area, it aint pretty.

I was playing inter vs barcelona a few days back, both fairly dark strips, but obviously you should be able to distinguish between them in this scenario still....we had to stop playing because we couldnt tell between players in the shaded area of the pitch.

Sorry about going on a bit but trying to give you a mental image.

This was at 2.2 gamma, and brightness +2.

Ridiculous.

Also i have seen others with the same issue, i posted here(same username) on this thread looking for help, and someone on the same page reported exactly my issue:

http://www.highdefjunkies.com/plasma-displays/12921-official-panasonic-st50-series-thread-90.html

Thanks for trying to help though.

[PaTaito]

If you are buying a decent TV budget for pro calibration. It's well worth it.

Yes but what percentage of buyers actually pay for calibration?

I bet its less than .1 of a percent, i've had a couple of sets done in the past, but i havent always got hundreds spare, and havent always got the time to be home for it.

I actually think reviews should take this into account and include two different review scores with this in mind, a calibrated score, and an out of the box score.

I was thinking that perhaps the THX mode of the GT60 would be a big improvement, but honestly i'm not convinced now.

I also hate the way darkness/colour shifts vertically on these sets, i mean wtf...again my PHD8 never used to, and its a real downer if you want to wall mount, or even if you have a low profile cabinet.

[Lyris]

Anyone noticed on a panty st50 a grainy effect at 1080p? Also any settings recommendations?

tried to video it:

Yes, it's low-level dither - related to how plasmas work. Newer and pricier PDPs have better handling of it.

It will be at its most obvious in the Game mode (due to fast display) and at its smallest in the True Cinema mode.

[gIzzE]

It sounds faulty, and does happen, I had a VT50 with a whacko gamma curve that had to go back.

[CMcK]

Yes but what percentage of buyers actually pay for calibration?

I bet its less than .1 of a percent, i've had a couple of sets done in the past, but i havent always got hundreds spare, and havent always got the time to be home for it.

I actually think reviews should take this into account and include two different review scores with this in mind, a calibrated score, and an out of the box score.

I think if more people saw a calibrated set next to an out the box setup they would stump up for it.
Thing is people just don't understand and think the picture you see is OK because you get used to it.

Good point about reviews rating a set based on calibrated output. That's fine on specialist sites like HDTV Test but What Hi-Fi, Which? and suchlike shouldn't review sets that have been calibrated as their audience isn't likely to spend the extra on calibration.
Does make you wonder about reviews of TVs straight from the box. How can you judge something that isn't performing to the best of its abilites?

People spend a lot of time in front of their TVs so you would think they would want to get the best from it.

[PaTaito]

I think if more people saw a calibrated set next to an out the box setup they would stump up for it.
Thing is people just don't understand and think the picture you see is OK because you get used to it.

Good point about reviews rating a set based on calibrated output. That's fine on specialist sites like HDTV Test but What Hi-Fi, Which? and suchlike shouldn't review sets that have been calibrated as their audience isn't likely to spend the extra on calibration.
Does make you wonder about reviews of TVs straight from the box. How can you judge something that isn't performing to the best of its abilites?

People spend a lot of time in front of their TVs so you would think they would want to get the best from it.

Exactly, my intention was to get my ST50 done at some point after it bedded in, but with a likely fault i haven't.

I think if TV's were judged harsher straight out of the box, then manufacturers would start giving us more accurate presets straight from the factory too.

Not to try and rain of any calibrators parade here.

You could surely make a killing selling pre ISF/THX calibrated tv's, ok it wouldn't suite plasma because the image changes in its infancy, but for LCD it would be great.

[fahrenheit]

Was going to return, but this comment from HDTVtest reviewing the gt60 made me think its just part of the set...

"We should just point out now that unlike last year, none of the modes have capped brightness or increased black level"

That part of the review was referring to the limited contrast which the GT/VT50 had with its Professional 1 and 2 presets.
The ST50 isn't affected.

I'm surprised that you are having trouble with True Cinema, as from what I've experienced, it has a linear gamma curve.
Normal and Game (which is a subset of Normal) have a very funky gamma curve where 0-10% and 95-100% can be set correctly, but everything in between is way overblown. The lower the gamma preset, the worse the curve tends to be.
That seems to be true of all the 2012 models in those two modes.

[PaTaito]

That part of the review was referring to the limited contrast which the GT/VT50 had with its Professional 1 and 2 presets.
The ST50 isn't affected.

I'm surprised that you are having trouble with True Cinema, as from what I've experienced, it has a linear gamma curve.
Normal and Game (which is a subset of Normal) have a very funky gamma curve where 0-10% and 95-100% can be set correctly, but everything in between is way overblown. The lower the gamma preset, the worse the curve tends to be.
That seems to be true of all the 2012 models in those two modes.

Sounds about right...

[PaTaito]

Right, just to update on my ST50 problem, i had my tv collected by a service centre who's details were provided by panasonic themselves. "Correct Service". Cost ?60 which i wasn't happy to have to pay, but wanted the tv right, so...

They had the set 2 days and called me to say they were returning it to me.

I had to push and ask what they had done, and they simply said the set was fine and well within spec...i couldn't believe my ears, i asked what they had actually done to test the set, they said that they had gone into the service menu and i quote "checked all the cut offs and such" and it was all fine, i asked him what the default numbers on the service menu screen had to do with the innacuracy of the image produced, and he struggled to answer...i then asked if he'd checked the accuracy of the true cinema factory calibration...he paused and said " no but you should be using dynamic mode anyway its the most accurate"




I asked if they actually had any equipment that tested for these kind of issues, and he said that the service menu would tell him if there was a problem, and because "it returned no errors" it was fine as far as they were concerned.

With that bombshell, and money out of pocket for the biggest farce of a service ever, i am back to square one. Clearly they haven't checked this set properly for what was reported.

Correct service...yeah if its a fuse change.

Now i fear i have a unreturnable, unserviceable, box of spare parts on my hands.

[Lyris]

You could surely make a killing selling pre ISF/THX calibrated tv's, ok it wouldn't suite plasma because the image changes in its infancy, but for LCD it would be great.

If they could, they would. But it's not just plasmas. LCDs / LED LCDs shift a lot too.

[phillai]

Guys, I need some friendly advice!
I am about to mount my 55" Samsung TV on the wall and not sure how high it should be.
At the moment its on its TV stand on the TV bench but its too low for wii, kinect and PS move games.
What's the best height for this type of gaming and general TV viewing?
If (at a guess) it's eye level whilst standing, is it eye level along the top of the TV or what?
Quick replies much aprreciated!